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Is it just me, or are many people underqualified, unskilled, and uneducated in Vancity?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ForeignButNot, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. ForeignButNot

    ForeignButNot Junior Member

    Hi guys,

    No need to be nasty, but I would really like to know your opinions on this mind boggling question.

    I have lived abroad now for years, and in some very cosmopolitan cities. For example, in some countries of Western Europe you must have a degree. If you don't, you are seen upon as trash, or the lowest of the low in society *and yes, this does bring up issues of classism and elitism in Europe. However, as elitist as this mentality is, it forces all youth to go to university. I am living in a European country right now where everyone is (I am speaking 35 years and under), an engineer, scientific journalist, economist etc. There is no such thing as going to university to study "philosophy," unless you are wanting to become a professor of Philosophy. You get it? Everyone is highly skilled.

    Then I do a trans-Atlantic flight to Vancouver, and it's the opposite. I look at my close group of friends, and this is a sample of what they are:

    1) Call centre operator for Shaw
    2) CSR for a prominent health insurance company
    3) Administrative worker for a construction company
    4) Secretary/contractor for Telus (always does 6 month to 1 year contracts in companies like Telus)
    5) Manager of one Fitness World location

    And many more, but I am mentioning the ones in my group of best friends.

    Then in my secondary group of friends (not as close), I have 3 other friends who are educated. One being a primary school teacher , the other being a lawyer, and the last is a Sports Medicine Doctor. They are a minority *number wise, to the rest of the lot.

    Now why is it that all of my friends, everyone that I know, is simply uninterested in education, and they have put more importance in menial office jobs rather than going to university to pursue degrees that would give them qualified and better paying work?

    Maybe it boils down to being raised in North Burnaby. Maybe it boils down to class or the socio-economic status of your parents and how you were raised, how cultured you are, were you, were you not the son or daughter of immigrants etc..

    I don't know if the people who live in places like North Burnaby or Coquitlam are less educated than the urban folk of the West Side and West End? Is this underqualified group of young people under the age of 35 a representation of Vancouver in general? Someone please explain this phenomenon to me....

    By the way, I am not looking down on those who are unskilled or never went to university. It's just something I have always wondered.
  2. flutterby

    flutterby Active Member

    How do people pay for uni in Europe? Is it cheaper than here? Are students funded well enough in Europe so that they can devote all their efforts to education or, like here, do students usually have to work at the same time?

    I was very surprised to learn that a uni education is free for women in Iran hence many women there have the qualifications you speak about.
  3. ForeignButNot

    ForeignButNot Junior Member

    Hi flutterby, in some countries like Germany, it's virtually free. In others, like Spain, it's dirt cheap, maybe 2000 euros a year.

    I find that many parents don't want to confuse their kids. They want them to work maybe during the summer, but not during the school year. They don't want them to get addicted to "fast money." Rather, they prefer that their kids put all their energy and time into a degree so they can work in the future in a higher paying job. Again, in many countries it's frowned upon to study clown degrees. For example, "Mom, I wanna do my undergraduate degree in Latin." Mom, "ummm, no, that won't get you a job." I think it's also a matter of the culture's mentality.

    In some of these European countries, it's a great shame to to work as a waiter or anything in the service industry. The menality is "leave it for the immigrants." I'm not saying that's right either. I agree with them in terms of putting so much importance in university education, but I disagree with their views that anything blue collar is shameful. Someone has to the dirty work, we shouldn't put them down for it.

    I think in Vancouver *I am not going to speak for the rest of Canada, many people put too much stress on "fast money." Who wants to go to university if their parents are saying "Get out, get a job doing whatever, and earn your keep by the age of 18."

    We need a happy median, no?
  4. flutterby

    flutterby Active Member

    Well you've answered your question......its about money. And if parents want their kids out of the house, then its about more money ie rent and food plus tuition. My ffriend's uncle was able to pay for his kid's uni, the kid didn't have to work to pay for anything so his grades were great and then he landed a plumb job....This is how the upper classes maintain their status.
  5. ForeignButNot

    ForeignButNot Junior Member

    I totally agree with you, but then I look at some of these Mediterranean countries like Spain, who are not nearly as wealthy as the Scandinavian countries, but they still put their kids through school, and never let them work until they are 26 years old - post university, post Master's degree, post internship. The parents value education so much, that even in the time of a financial crisis, they won't let their kids work in the short run so that the kids can have good jobs in the long run. Maybe it's also about family values?
  6. flutterby

    flutterby Active Member

    Yes, a loving and stable family goes a long way. My clueless immigrant English parents wanted me out of the house asap (to be honest they were really bad for my self esteem so it was better i did not live there) but its different in England. There kids can leave school at 16 and get a junior position within a good company. They have a tradition of apprenticeships there. Neither of my parents had to work low paying retail jobs ever.

    When you're young and unskilled and have to move out, you never really catch up. Do Europeans value their kids more? Thats the real question.
  7. ForeignButNot

    ForeignButNot Junior Member

    Agreed, I lived in London and I can attest to the fact that the concept of apprenticeship is completely different to Canada's concept of apprenticeship. Very well put Flutterby, who values their children more?
  8. Night Of GuardianS

    Night Of GuardianS Active Member

    I can't believe college is free in some countries. Here people go into a $60,000 debt cause of school.
    Cookie-Monster likes this.
  9. milquetoast

    milquetoast Senior Member

    I disagree. One difference is the lack of job opportunities here. In Canada, you see many university educated graduates working jobs like CSR, retail, administration etc. A bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma.

    Another explanation is selection (sampling) bias. For example if I looked at my social circle, it would be full of nurses, teachers, lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, occupational therapists, physiotherapists, social workers etc.

    Here are stats about higher education in Canada compared to other countries:
  10. bill barilko

    bill barilko Full Member

    Note-only crude ignorant tourist gits say V*nc*t*.
  11. ForeignButNot

    ForeignButNot Junior Member

    Milquetoast, I have seen the stats, and this is why I am so confused. This is why I am posting the thread. Maybe it's just a coincidence that many people that I know are not interested in post secondary education.

    However, going back to my comments earlier in the thread, I did say that in some of these European countries it's very rare that people study a "clown degree." I know, I know, that's very harsh, but you know what I am talking about- literature, theatre, music, horticulture, liberal arts degree etc. These are degrees that won't land you a job immediately when you finish univeristy. My partner, who is European, goes off on a tangent when he hears that one of my friends studied archaeology or "Renaissance history," as a university degree. He thinks like the rest of the lot and says "why would you study these degrees knowing they don't offer any job opportunities after you graduate?"

    I do think that there are many university graduates in Canada overall, but I think there's a huge number of people who do graduate with these degrees that make you just as unskilled as "Joe, I've been a full time waiter since I was 18." In many other countries, *and someone please prove me wrong or show me a stat to prove me wrong, there is a higher concentration of university grads who have degrees that are in demand such as engineering. There is no "Mom, Dad, I am going to study ancient Latin and do a minor in theology."

    I think going to university is great *in general. It shows that you can commit to something for 4 years. But I think the point of my thread was to ask if there are many people who are uneducated AND unskilled in Vancouver. Perhaps people don't study medicine, telecommunication engineering, etc., in large numbers because it's in relation to the job demand of the city.

    Anyhow, I know this is all theorizing and blah, blah, blah, I was just wondering.
  12. ForeignButNot

    ForeignButNot Junior Member

    And for Night of GuardianS- there are tons of countries that offer free education, it's only hard to believe when you're from a country like Canada or the US. Some of the countries that offer free university education include Denmark, Germany, Finland, France, Scotland, Greece etc.
  13. the mechanic

    the mechanic Active Member

    ... great topic, although a little unfair to just pick on one bank since they're all much the same ...

    ... you don't have to be a rocket scientist to get a job at a bank. from what i've seen, they hire at a low level -- mostly young chicks based on how pretty they are. thus you should be very careful when placing money in banks -- the employees aren't the brightest and their female employees are clueless about combatting fraud schemes ...

    ... the original poster is talking about a financial institution right?
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  14. flutterby

    flutterby Active Member

    Not vancity the bank, vancouver the city
    the mechanic likes this.
  15. the mechanic

    the mechanic Active Member

    ... thanks for clarifying, flutterby. i still stand by my comment though ...
  16. Immigrant

    Immigrant Guest

    I was asking myself the same question:
    Last week I was pruning My trees in My yard, and My neigbour's gardener came to tell Me that I was brutal cutting My trees and that I should pay Him to do it professionally, Can You believe it? a Pariah, a servant, a scum a low life an insolent!

    well welcome to Vancouver, where poor devils have delirium of greatness, by the way I don't look down to others who know respect and keep their distance, I only look down guys like those who are insolent. the gardeners name is O'grady's.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2014
  17. Stuntman

    Stuntman Full Member

    When I went to university, you needed a certain minimum grade before you are accepted. Not everyone has the grades to enter university.

    It also costs money to go to university in Vancouver. The costs when I went was much lower than they are now. They were increasing quite a bit. My fourth year's tuition was 30% higher than my first year's. I don't know how much tuition is now, but I think it has increased quite a bit.

    When I was young, my parents always stressed education. I assumed everyone went to university from what my parents' attitude towards education was. I didn't know I had the option not to go. I'm glad I did. I was also expected to live at home until I got married. I didn't have to worry about room and board and my parents paid my way through university. I certainly had the opportunity to go to university which not everyone does.

    I think ethic background and culture affects it. A friend of mine from a different culture was expected to leave home and be on his own when he turned 18. He didn't have a lot of money for post-secondary education having to find a source of income. He wasn't afforded the same opportunity as I did.
    the mechanic likes this.
  18. ForeignButNot

    ForeignButNot Junior Member

    Agreed, culture and the financial state of the family plays a huge part, at least in Vancouver.
    the mechanic likes this.
  19. Mindspring

    Mindspring Guest

    Why bother to get university degree when you have so many companies looking for undereducated people to hire.

    I worked in a college in Alberta many years ago, the college had an engineering program and the then department head's educational qualification was a two-year college interior design certificate. Later the college phased out the engineering program due to lack of enrollment.

    My immediate past employer was a roof-top safety equipment manufacturer in Vancouver. The manager's educational background was a high school diploma with one year college in forestry. He had professional engineers working underneath him. The owner of the company did even go to college.
    ForeignButNot likes this.
  20. flutterby

    flutterby Active Member

    One of the paradoxes here: you need very little education to become a business owner. You can hire all the well educated employees you like to actually run the business.
    ForeignButNot likes this.

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