Does Canada DESERVE Your Loyalty Or Respect Through Birth?

... i don't feel i owe this country any special loyalty simply because i'm a canadian citizen. allow me to explain ...

... i didn't choose to become a canadian. i didn't immigrate to canada. canada was FORCED on me! i became a citizen because i was born here and i was born here because my parents resided here. i didn't have any choice in the matter. and it's not like it would be easy for me to pack up and move to another country. i'm stuck here whether i like it or not! but the truth is i do like it here so moving isn't an issue ...

... my point is, i don't owe this country any special loyalty just because i'm a citizen -- citizenship was forced on me, as it is forced on MANY, MANY others ...

... do you have a comment about this? should i feel patriotic about canada simply because my mom popped me out of her belly here? i don't believe so ...

... comments?

 

You didn't choose to become a Canadian, but you could choose to no longer become a Canadian. Just check this link: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/renounce.asp

 

I thought Canada was a sweet and aimiable country except for the ghastly winter. Why are you unhappy about being Canadian?

 

Question is - should we confer citizenship upon those just because of birthrite? Ie - child born of parents who entered the country illegally or didn't have a proper visa or immigration status. Some nations don't necessarilly recognize 'birther' citizenship. There's a debate in the United States now to revoke this privilege due to the high rate of illegal immigration to that country.

 

... yet on the other hand, isn't the current administration legalizing masses of illegal immigrants, giving them amnesty of some kind?

... thanks for your excellent comment, Joe!

 

If you are a "native-born" Canadian you can't renounce your citizenship unless:

9. (1) A citizen may, on application, renounce his citizenship if he

(a) is a citizen of a country other than Canada or, if his application is accepted, will become a citizen of a country other than Canada;

(b) is not the subject of a declaration by the Governor in Council made pursuant to section 20;

(c) is not a minor;

(d) is not prevented from understanding the significance of renouncing citizenship by reason of the person having a mental disability; and

(e) does not reside in Canada.

Part of this section, which was enacted in 1975, is intended to conform with the provisions of the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness, which came into force in 1975 and to which Canada is a State party, specifically Article 7 §1(a):

If the law of a Contracting State permits renunciation of nationality, such renunciation shall not result in loss of nationality unless the person concerned possesses or acquires another nationality.

Meaning that a native-born Canadian cannot directly renounce his/Her citizenship and become stateless. They would have to do this through a second party that was not a signatory of the 1961 UN Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness. The US is one such country.

 

That debate is happening here as well. We are one of the few remaining modern countries with an open birth citizenship policy. People come here from other countries to give birth so their child will have Canadian citizenship. When the child is older, they can sponsor their parents to immigrate.

The official stance of the Canadian government is that the issue is overblown. They claim that cases are limited and not widespread. Hospitals and healthcare workers disagree stating that private pay women take up resources, beds and operating time from Canadians. It's also common for them to skip out on their bill which means Canadians are paying for their pregnancy care.

When I was doing obstetrics and pediatrics, I came across a number of Chinese women in clinic and in hospital (Surrey Memorial, St. Paul's and BC Women's) who were private pay clients. They were clearly taking advantage of a citizenship loophole but who could blame them. If I was a wealthy foreigner, I would want my son or daughter to have access to what's available in Canada or the US.

I recall there was one couple who had twins born prematurely resulting in a month long NICU stay. The NICU alone was costing them $20,000 a night x 30 days. The finance department of the hospital visited the parents daily to make sure they would pay up.

It's not just the Chinese that is abusing the system though. In Toronto, CBSA caught many Nigerian pregnant women pulling the same stunt. Doing a quick google search will bring up numerous companies and websites that charge to facilitate international women giving birth in Canada. In Vancouver at least, there are many Chinese-Canadians who run businesses that target this market. It's profitable. They have homes in Richmond where pregnant women can stay prenatally and postpartum.

 

Well, pass new laws classifying those pre-natal clincs as businesses promoting fraud, and impose big fines and lengthy jail terms on those convicted of running them. And also instruct immigration officials to be on the look-out for women with rather bulging tummies. However, obsession with this abuse might indeed be overblown. Does it really happen on such a large scale? To some extent, it could indeed be prejudiced white Canadians yelling bloody murder because they don't like certain kinds of people.

I'm sure many of the First Nations would love to ship you white folks back to Europe, but y'know.....I kind of have a gut feeling that that won't occur anytime soon! As far as aboriginals are concerned, all whites in North America were born illegitimately. Yes, this abuse does exist, but don't push any panic button.

 

... sorry, Vivek, but i'm not sure where you got the notion that i'm not a satisfied canadian citizen ...

... all i said was that i didn't choose to be a canadian ...

 

Sorry guy, then I misinterpreted you. The majority of people don't choose their country. Immigrants do. In answer to your question, the reason a Canadian should feel loyal to Canada is because it is a humane, wonderful country which confers numerous blessings, liberty and peace, and a good quality of life upon them. Had it not been for the ghastly climate, I would have loved to make my home there. Lastly, don't get me started on how beautiful and companionable Canadian ladies can be! I can see spending my life with one, giving her the same devotion I gave my mother.

 

Guys there is no ghastly winter in Vancouver area. Go to other provinces and you will never complain about Vancouver weather. I moved from Ontario and the natural beauty and weather here are amazing .. though sadly nearly everything else is pale in comparison.

 

True, but everything is relative. Compared to south Florida, even Atlanta's weather is unjolly.

 

I'm not sure if I would like the climate in south Florida. I hear it is very hot and humid.

 

Indeed, that it is. Every rose has its thorn, and hurricanes and summer humidity are ours. However, this may not always be in future decades. As solar power becomes far more advanced Florida will have several humidity-extraction towers, looking somewhat like water towers today. Suctioning in steamy, moist air, they will turn humidity into drinkable water, purify the air, and blow cold dry air out. This will result in both outdoor air-conditioning as well as in on-the-spot water sources. It will bless us both with less dependence on rainfall and reservoirs, and with cleaner and cooler air outdoors.

 

I am proud of being a Canadian citizen, thought I am an immigrant from China. to me China is more like my mother, Canada is my lover.

 

I'm not happy with the country right now. It let me down a lot when I was going through hard times and their programs did nothing to help. It seems to help more with immigrants. NO offence to them at all so I'll say that now.
But I expected a lot more assistance with programs when I was having trouble getting a job and funding for retraining. Those tax paid funds are being wasted and the staff members working there don't know what they're doing at all. That is just the tip of the icerberg. Living in Vancouver as well is another disappointment. Nice city yes, but so many problems are easily seen here. I won't say anything except that all Canada Day is to me as a day where I don't have to go to work and I get paid. Nothing else. I don't owe this country a thing.
Beautiful country yes, but under the core, its a disappointments. There are far worse countries out there and Canada fails to set an example.

 

... funny you mention this. i noticed the same thing ...

... at the same time as i was being dragged through the courts on numerous phony allegations, having my bank accounts looted by government officials and getting nailed with ridiculously high federal taxation assessments (and all the tricks and games that go along with that), my american neighbor was approved for canadian citizenship quickly with no resistance from the government. i can't tell you how betrayed this unfairness made me feel. why was i, the canadian citizen, being treated with such disrespect while a welcome mat was put out for the american?

... however, on the positive side, all that garbage is behind me now and i'm no longer having any problems with the government ...

 

Ya I agree. A few years ago I was sent all over the place to places like "Training Innovations, GasTown Vocationals, Open Door Group, Pact Employment, Mosaic, Compass, etc and SO many more of them. All they did was waste my time, misinformed me, had ridiculous rules, and they got me nowhere.

One of the worst was Work BC on Commercial Drive. Very lax staff members who are lazy, don't do their job, and don't get results. One guy made me attend some workshops which were so basic, and I thought I would get funded training to go back to school, but then at the end of the day, they told me I wouldn't get nothing because I had a skill already. Also their programs cater more towards immigrants and many members are immigrants too. Despite filing complaints, nothing seems to be done. They even sent me to get an evaluation done or an assessment as they called it, but they ask very bad questions so I got up and left immediately. It has nothing to do with job hunting and training, but its psychological. I didn't get it, because it didn't have to do with anything. Now this whole thing may be on record. Avoid this place at all costs.

I don't know about Success BC, but look at their website below. Clearly it caters towards immigrants. Now all I want to say is, I was here first and I was born here, so I should get first dibs. I'm fed up with this nonsense and where our money is going to pay these people. It's insulting to me as a "Canadian".

http://www.successbc.ca

Thoughts?

 

... fantastic post, Mikey. what you are telling us comes from your experience, as such your observations hold much weight ...

... do you have any theories as to why the government favors immigrants in some cases as both you and i have seen? i'm guessing it might have something to do with money. for instance, when applying for citizenship immigrants hire lawyers and by doing so they are basically paying off the government by way of the attorney fees. it can be tantamount to bribery in some cases ...

... what's your take on this?

 

I didn't think of that, although I should have, and thats a very valid point. I'm sure that money is an incentive to help immigrants more than us.

I'm sure there are other factors involving this as well. I just don't get it - its horrible.
I did leave my feedback to a particular department in Victoria a few years ago and they weren't happy that this was going on though. A lot of those programs are gone, and good riddance. They're not needed and are a huge waste of money. What is somebody to do?
I just ended up doing everything by myself - and that kind of blows.