Lots of black ice today

Be careful out there whether you are driving or just walking.

 

Here in the UK we are waiting for the first big freeze ....... brrrr The country will come to a stand still as in schools shut , planes dont always fly trains dont run and the gritter lorries never get out in time.... lol
How do you Canadians cope... lol
But apparently the north of the country has lots of wonderful snow , but where i am its only raining
AGAIN

 

Saw at least 6 cars with bashed up bumpers on the way to school on 16th Avenue.

 

I'm not gonna drive today.

 

Most drivers drive as if it isn't snowing at all. Going slow down the hill on Royal Oak and a bunch of cars got impatient and pass me. Was shovelling my drive way and sure enough, cars are spinning their tires going up my street. People should require a special designation before they are allowed to drive in the snow. Just so many people just don't know how.

 

Or you get winter tires . They aren't just for snow. ICBC should offer a discount for winter tire use as an incentive.

 

I'm of the opinion that knowing how to properly drive in snow trumps winter tires. If you step on the gas too hard, your tires will still spin in the snow. If you drive way too fast down a hill, snow tires will probably not help you stop in time.

 

Except that the difference in performance between winter tires, summer and all-season tires are enormous for winter conditions. I agree that driving technique is important, but the differences aren't marginal. Besides, I think you'd agree that it's much simpler to get people to buy winter tires than to improve their driving skills .

In the snow, compared to winter tires:
All-seasons are 24% slower to accelerate.
Summer tires are 257% slower to accelerate.

At 40mph in the snow, compared to winter tires:
All-seasons take 28 feet longer to fully stop.
Summer tires 192 feet longer to fully stop.

Data from Edmunds.

 

Here are the problems I see. I think it's not a good idea to try to accelerate quickly in the snow. I think it may not be a good idea to be going 40 MPH/64 km/h in the snow. You're saying that these winter tires are good for doing things that I feel are probably not recommended in the snow. Accelerating faster just puts you in a more dangerous situation faster in the snow. The stopping distance stats that you quoted show only the relative stopping distance, not the total stopping distance. I would be interested to know what the actual stopping distance of winter tires while going at 40 mph. Do you have those numbers?

 

They are in the Edmunds link at the bottom. I converted the numbers into relative values for ease of comparison but the source is in absolutes.

In any case, while it's not wise to be accelerating quickly in terrible conditions, snow tires will absolutely give the driver a huge improvement in control and stability, even at lower speeds.

 

OK. Taking 156 feet to stop with winter tires is a lot. That's half the length of a football field. With all-seasons, that's almost another first down. The data is for travelling at 64 km/h. If I need half the length of a football field stop, then I am driving way too fast. If it is snowing heavily in Metro Vancouver, I would be driving way more slowly depending on how much snow is sticking. On the unplowed, unsalted side streets, I'd be going like 20 km/h at the most.

I understand that they want to standardise the test results to compare driving the same speed in different road conditions. Most people won't be driving 20 km/h in ideal, dry conditions. I would say that driving at 64 km/h here in Vancouver under heavy snow conditions is just asking for trouble. I would have liked to see test results for snow driving at the speed appropriate for those conditions. I would think that stopping distances would be less dramatic between snow and all-seasons.

The article also talks about the fact that ideally, you should switch between summer and winter tires to get the best results. However, predicting the weather is difficult and getting caught with the wrong type of tires at an inopportune time when you get an unexpected storm is going to be pretty bad as well.

What I would like to see are results of stopping in the snow while driving at different speeds and different tires. That way, if you get caught with the wrong type of tires which can happen, you at least know how to manage your driving to minimise your potential of a crash. I would also like to see tests done on an incline. There are a lot of hills in Metro Vancouver and I would think that hills do play a factor in crashes. The hill on Royal Oak by Deer Lake is a classic example.

 

I'm sure it's been done. Will take a more comprehensive look later, but here's what I found with a brief google:

Stopping Distance @ 50km/h in - 20°C with 3-5 cm of compacted snow and ice on asphalt. This is with ABS equipped.


Consumer Reports has data for 20mph but unfortunately they don't list absolute values.


Another thing to keep in mind is that stopping distance is not everything. Winter tires provide substantially more control and stability which would help with inclines. You are also less likely to get stuck which is a huge problem here. There is a huge amount of data supporting winter tires and they've been around forever. It's not a marketing gimmick.

In terms of predicting when to change your tires over, people always wait until the day it snows which is too late and difficult to predict. The term 'Snow Tires' is a misnomer because they aren't just for snow. Snow tires perform better at temperatures less than 7°C. Below that temperature, the rubber compound used in summer tires and all-season become stiff and you lose traction.

The rule is that once temperatures are consistently below 7°C, slap on your winter tires.