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was Jesus the illegitimate son of a Roman soldier?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vivek Golikeri, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. Vivek Golikeri

    Vivek Golikeri Active Member

    Read the Jewish Talmud, and also the writings of second century Greek writers Origen and Celsus. You will find a common claim which, naturally, Christians would consider very offensive and blasphemous. This is the assertion that Mary, mother of Jesus, was either raped or willingly seduced by a Roman soldier named Tiberius Iulius Panthera. According to this story, the man the world has known for two thousand years as Jesus Christ was the result of this forbidden union.

    I couldn't care less even if this story is true, because Jesus was still the same wonderful saint and superman that he was anyway. Blaming someone just because of their ancestry or blood relations has a name. It is called racism. Besides, in those days most marriages were arranged. The woman, even more than the man, had little choice in the matter. So even if she did technically commit adultery she should not be considered bound by the marriage vows.

    Amerasian children left behind in Vietnam by GI fathers have suffered the same shameful rejection and misplaced blame that a child with a Jewish mother and a Roman father would certainly have endured in Roman Judea. Now that fairy tale about Jesus being born of divine conception, of Mary being still a virgin even while carrying, is the sort of junk you expect to see in the Twilight Zone television series. Either Joseph was the father, or Mary had a man somewhere.

    The question is: was her man a Roman?
     
  2. the mechanic

    the mechanic Active Member

    ... i thought he was the son of god ...
     
  3. Vivek Golikeri

    Vivek Golikeri Active Member

    You see? Exactly my point. A whole religion grew up around the lie that was invented to save two innocent lives from exactly the kind of ugly jurisprudence we see today under Sharia Law in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. Stoning, amputation, child marriage, owning slaves.....that's exactly what the Law of Moses was made of.
     
  4. googlybear

    googlybear New Member

    of course the jews are going to say that in their holy books.

    But the secret societies know Mary was 'artificially' enciminated by the gods who seeded humanity eons ago. This information is hidden in the vatican archives
     
  5. Vivek Golikeri

    Vivek Golikeri Active Member

    Googlybear, the real problem is that these events all occurred, if at all, two millenia ago. Evidence is scanty and mostly eroded. The Bible? That is NOT evidence. That is a bunch of claims and assertions.
     
  6. Aaron Zacharias

    Aaron Zacharias New Member

     
  7. Aaron Zacharias

    Aaron Zacharias New Member

    If you don't believe in God, or if you would prefer not to believe, then I suppose this theory would make sense. If you do believe in God, then perhaps he (of she) is the one to ask. But by all means, ask.
     
  8. Vivek Golikeri

    Vivek Golikeri Active Member

    I do believe in God, but I believe that the god of the Bible is not true. I believe in the concept of deity held by the 18th century Enlightenment Philosophes like Voltaire, Rousseau, and Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. I am a Deist. God is an Abstract Power which operates the universe by due process of laws, not by personal will or fiat. To speak of God being righteous, merciful or angry is as silly and primitive as saying that God has a beard or a penis.

    Humans, in whichever civilization, fasten their own values and traits upon their notion of divinity. Bible-believers naively or self-righteously think that their belief is superior because their god is not represented by idols or images. So what? Jehovah still has a human personality. He is a dictatorial patriarch or king, a supernatural version of Ayatollah Khomeini.
     
  9. I'm not joking!

    I'm not joking! Junior Member

    I honestly don't know how You are allowed to post here this so offensive posts, You must have some kind of strings with Forum Vancouver.
    What You always say against JesusChrist is offensive, why You don't say anything about the lies and hate propaganda born in the Synagogues?
    You are so demeaning against Christians of all denominations, You should be banned and prosecuted for Persecution of Religion.
    I think that Forum Vancouver has some part on what You do, This is not a Family site where You can post something edificating and altruist, this became the forum of hate propaganda and slander against Christians. This has to stop!
     
    igor likes this.
  10. ExCuEsMe!

    ExCuEsMe! Guest

    and don't forget the Zionist Jews in Israel who claim that god gave them the land, those are the worst of all the bunch, ethnic cleansing killing children and women not by stones but with prohibited weapons
    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/israel-use-banned-weapons-dime-gaza-war.html#
     
    I'm not joking! and igor like this.
  11. Vivek Golikeri

    Vivek Golikeri Active Member

    Dear I'm Not Joking: I am allowed to post here because my behavior confirms to Forum Vancouver rules ----- and I don't need to care about your rules. You do not make the rules here any more than I do. How can I be prosecuted for persecution of religion? I never personally went harassing anyone, neither harming nor threatening harm. I exercise free speech.

    Yes, I believe what the Bible-pushers preach is wrong, and make it my business to speak against it. However, let me warn you. One poster going after poster with anger is forbidden here. One poster posted a personal attack on me some time ago. I reported him, and the moderators took care of him.

    If my posts offend you, there is a wonderful solution. Just don't read them. Just don't come on my thread. Because I'll be watching your future posts. You have every right to attack my opinions. But if you ever do personal attacks, YOU, not I, will get banned.
     
  12. Vivek Golikeri

    Vivek Golikeri Active Member

    When I express opinions about Christianity which don't suit you, you call me a hate-monger. But you yourself feel free to go demonizing Zionism. Listen. I am proud to call myself a gentile Zionist. The Hindu minority in Bangladesh and Pakistan have endured decades of persecution. Christians are persecuted in Pakistan, and while I may not agree with Christianity I cannot stomach picking on people because of their faith.

    Yet all we hear from the leftist liberals in the western world is about the so-called Palestinians. Where the Left got this infatuation with the Muslim countries, I do not know. Arabs in Israel and Muslims in India have far greater rights than Jews or Hindus in Muslim lands.
     
  13. I'm not joking!

    I'm not joking! Junior Member

    I am going to say that You calling Me dear is so repulsive, You persecute Christians because most of Your posts are against JesusChrist and Virgin Mary, You use demeaning remarks against Christianity, and if You don't like the bible or Christianity just don't read it.

    I doubt very much that Your posts conform with the rules in any other forum, but somehow in this forum that I consider corrupt and one sided is accordingly with Your low moral and hate speech against Christianity, You are one of the "moderators" an scribe for the Jeiw hate towards Christianity, but You know what? The more you attack more hate You attract towards Those you say to protect.
    And that person who supposedly insulted You, He or She only said the truth and saying the truth is not a sin but makes You uncomfortable, that is why You as "moderator" censored and modify anything that goes against Your agenda, included lies against Palestine lies born from the invented people of Israel, just recently there was a gay parade near by the Church of the Nativity, this why Your people wanted Jerusalem? To parade Your degradation? This is why You are so eager to demonize Palestinians ? And You say that You don't insult anyone, You are a fallacy and a parody of truth, You are slander in person,
    I also will be watching Your posts and sooner than later will read them, the thing is that I don't get paid to insult other faiths, but if You are so sincere why don't you post about how Ashkenazi Zionism was created to lie and disposes people from their own land, why You don't say anything about the traffic of human organs sent to Israhell to implant on your people so they can die complete otherwise they don't go to Your own created heaven in which as ridicule as it sounds You enter with stolen human spare parts.
    Why You don't say anything about the promise land and the chosen ones, theory born of the greater form of fascism, racism and again ridiculed by the fact that the sad reality for you is that a bunch of squatters are taking land saying that God gave them that land, I have news for You, there is something called Land Tilte, You guys make those in Israel?
     
    igor likes this.
  14. igor

    igor Junior Member

    as for red, that is exactly what You are doing [removed]
    as for pink, Where si the land of the Zionist...? Is not in the Middle East nor South Africa, can You guess?
    as for "gentile" sounds more like [removed]
    I am just analyzing your words, and how you try to evade what you do, = JU!
     
    I'm not joking! likes this.
  15. Vivek Golikeri

    Vivek Golikeri Active Member

    Igor, I just reported you to the moderaters for name calling, verbal abuse and personal attacks. While you have every right to attack my opinions, personal nastiness will get you warned, and then BANNED if you keep it up. It is not my fault if your mother never taught you manners.
     
  16. the mechanic

    the mechanic Active Member

    ... Vivek, you are soliciting opinions from people by posting a topic. as such, you have a responsibility to accept the replies even if you don't like them. threatening us by saying you are going to have people banned will only discourage people from commenting ...
     
    I'm not joking! and igor like this.
  17. igor

    igor Junior Member

    [removed],
    I am merely analyzing your background, I am not insulting U, but I have proof that You are! And where You came from to insult Christians.
    [removed]
     
    the mechanic and I'm not joking! like this.
  18. Vivek Golikeri

    Vivek Golikeri Active Member

    Mechanic, there is a big difference between opinion disagreement and personal abuse. You and I sometimes disagree, but our personal exchanges have always been civil. Name-calling, use of language like "genital" to pun on "gentile" and deride another poster, are not disagreement but a violation of forum rules. I delight in sprightly disagreement. Minds are like knives. They sharpen each other. But abuse is forbidden and I will take appropriate action.
     
  19. I'm not joking!

    I'm not joking! Junior Member

    What do You think You are doing by calling Jesus illegitimate? That is an insult, is an insult to My past present and future, is an insult to My faith, what igor is doing is counter racism, I support what He said about You, how does it feel to be called illegitimate? You don't want to see that the supposed insults towards You are the plain truth.
    You brought this to Yourself and now Your voice will be like the cry iof a little dog lost!
    I don't think that a "moderator" with just a little of principles wil let You get away with insults to Christanity in every denomination.

    Why don't You answer igor's questions, nor mine, all You do is whining, stop whining and answer the questions!
    I think You are crying coward! And like all cowards all You do is crying like all of Your kind, You hit kill and cry.
    Hypocrites.
     
    the mechanic likes this.
  20. Vivek Golikeri

    Vivek Golikeri Active Member

    Now this ----- whether I like Igor's hate against me or not ------ is legitimate expression of hostility. No name calling, dirty language, just expression of
    anger. This I have to be prepared for if I want to debate.
     

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